Max Keiser: Woods is ‘Running Scared'; I Respond with a Challenge

Max Keiser has replied to my criticism of his segment last week in which he and his guest criticized Ludwig von Mises and claimed he wasn’t a true Austrian economist [!]. Read his reply. I want people to see it.

In response, I have now posted “My Challenge to Max Keiser.” He continues to peddle this weird narrative according to which Mises is a deviationist from the pure Austrian economics of Carl Menger, the founder of the school. This is as wrong as wrong can be, and one will search histories of economic thought in vain for any scholar anywhere who has even noticed a difference between Menger and Mises, much less claimed that one so deviated from the other that they no longer belonged to the same school.

In his reply to me, Keiser disputed my point that private ownership of resources leads to a greater concern for their long-term capital value than occurs under public ownership. That’s bad enough, but he then claims that this is another example of the alleged Mises/Woods deviation from Menger!

So my challenge is, show me where Menger ever said anything different.

Now he is boxed in. Menger never even wrote on these topics, as far as I know, and nothing that he did write contradicts my point even slightly. Keiser would know this, too, were he speaking from a position of knowledge rather than ignorance.

Now before I’m told that back-and-forths like this are silly or unproductive, let me note that I have tried to take the high road from the start, and the whole matter began because I wanted to exonerate Mises of the crazy charges leveled against him on Max’s show. That is an honorable motive. Max’s reply is filled with angry invective that was nowhere to be found in my essay. Again, defending oneself against this kind of treatment is honorable and just.

Incidentally, Max tweeted, when I posted my original article: “Takedown? Tom, we just started. When we’re done, they’ll be nothing left of you.”

Then he wrote, “Fake Mises stooge @ThomasEWoods running scared.”

Classy.

Someone who knows he’s in the right doesn’t need to act like that.

Now he’s claiming he’s really taken me down this time, over at his website. I’m on my way to Tampa, so this will have to wait until next week. Count me dubious.

But “running scared”? How does issuing a public challenge qualify as running scared? It’s a challenge Max will not answer or even acknowledge, because there is no reply.

Answer my challenge, Max. Stand up and defend your statement. If not, all the alleged replies on your website will be further confirmation of who is really running scared.

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  • Dirtscratcher

    “Well, Max is on TV…..”

    Ummmm….. so are the Kardashians, and unless I miss my mark, they have a larger audience, though it’s a toss up which is smarter.
    Engaging Kaiser is like mud wrestling: how do you do it without getting dirty?

    Tom writes books. Which audience is more worthy of pursuit?

  • Mike

    Ummmm….. As usual someone doesn’t get it. next…

  • Shayne

    Why do these radio host people have economist on that don’t know what they are talking about and then believe them only because what they say is different.

  • http://www.facebook.com/jeremy.r.hammond Jeremy R. Hammond

    Surely you cannot possibly be so ignorant as to be suggesting that Austrian economists favor a one world currency, whether backed by gold or otherwise.

  • Dave Harrison

    Did deal with no scarce resources. While going forward with full deployment of mobile technology and behavioral economics that Internet will address scarcity through the false yet quite effective appearance of the disintermediation of your free will.

    Dave Harrison
    www.tradewithdave.com

  • vox

    Yeah, sure they want gold. Every mainstream financial publication poo-poos it as a bad purchase. The Gold Commission of 1982 resulted in nothing but the Treasury reinstating a gold coin, which, to the government, has only relevance as a “collectible” than as a unit of indirect exchange. It is taxed as a “collectible.” Edwin Vieira has a great plan to reinstate gold. I haven’t heard about him getting a hearing before congress; and he is the foremost expert on Constitutional money in this country. If the Fed wanted a gold standard, then why has Bernard von Nothaus been convicted of “counterfeit” for trying to implement commodity exchange?
    The “evil” Mises was unable to get a permanent teaching post anywhere in this country, despite his so-called support of the plundering 1%. The reality is that trolls come on this site and mix lies with the truth. If you don’t like the current system, and you don’t like the idea of a gold standard, what are your answers for solving our current economic problems? Give us some solutions Rex the Red. Andy Rooney is dead. We don’t need another old guy complaining and shilling for the state. I like your pipe though. Makes you a distinguished Marxist.

  • Mike

    “Both hate the poor and write economic theory as a cover for the 1% to plunder the masses.”

    LOL! Yeah, right. That’s why the media never mentioned their names for decades and now when they do it they are either misrepresented or just ridiculed. Are you really THAT thick?

    ” And in Max would win this hands down”

    Comedy gold.

  • Mike

    I agree. Especially since there are fools like contrarian rex who actually believe the foolishness Max spouts.

  • Mike

    sigh….the old tried and true. I present to you *drum roll please*……

    THE RACE CARD.

    You’d think people would get sick of this accusation after so many false accusations. Whenever I hear that accusation I immediately think, “Oh, he lost the argument so he’s going to pull that out to hide behind. Got it”.

    Does anyone with a 50+ IQ even listen to that anymore?

  • Mike

    Yup. Not to mention that Mises had all his papers and property confiscated by the Nazi regime. Oh yeah, Mises is protecting the 1%, that’s why they took all his possessions and declared him an enemy. LOL!

  • jaffi411

    “And in Max would win this hands down because he has first hand knowledge of how global finance and banking operates… Tom Woods knows all about … austrian economics”

    Um, you apparently are completely lost. The entire argument was dealing with Austrian economics and the beliefs and works of its proponents, and Max and Jaitly were entirely wrong. You can’t try to change the goalposts when your side is losing.

    I am not seeing how Max’s being a trader and having created the Hollywood Stock Exchange (which doesn’t actually trade stocks, it trades derivatives) qualifies him for “solving todays (sic) economic problems”. You act as if the Austrian school doesn’t have masses of brokers, traders, bankers, businesspeople, economists, entrepreneurs, capitalists, historians, professors, scientists, and a whole host of other experts of various disciplines within its ranks. I could list random Austrians off of the top of my head that make Keiser look like a hack… because he is a hack. He’s proved that by discussing stuff that he doesn’t know a thing about as if he is an expert. The real experts see this and immediately identify him as a hack. Case in point: saying that Mises strayed from Menger and was a fake Austrian. Dr. Woods handed Max his ass (with style and grace) and GSI essentially fired Jaitly. It really doesn’t get more clear cut than that.

    It’s obvious that you only have a facile knowledge of the Austrian school, that you’ve never read any of its works, and that you’re operating primarily as a person who is defending an individual that you have an emotional attachment to, rather than dealing with the issue under discussion. Your ignorance could be somewhat excusable if it weren’t for the fact that you’re going out of your way to directly attack an entire school of economic thought. You are making baseless claims without backing them up. Could you please provide a single theory or statement by the likes of Rothbard, Mises, Menger, or any other Austrian thinker, that proves your assertion that Austrians hate the poor and are providing cover for the 1%?

    Of course, you and I (and the rest of the people reading this) know that you cannot do such a thing, because such a thing doesn’t exist. Further, you and I both know that you haven’t read a single piece of Austrian literature, and you are completely out of your league. Basically, I am calling you out and saying that you’re full of shit.

    Fetz

  • jaffi411

    “it’s just that some people want to disown MK entirely”

    I never took him seriously to begin with. I identified his ideology as both dangerous and highly socialistic early on, so it was obvious to me that he deserves little to none of my time. However, if he wants to take shots, I am game to volley.

    Fetz

  • Bob Murphy

    Wow this is inconceivable. I guess a lot of his fans won’t bother to assess the situations themselves? I would actually lose sleep if I find myself in his predicament, but I guess he will sleep like a baby tonight.

  • jaffi411

    Can somebody decipher Dave’s comment for me? Thanks.

  • dude

    sounds like the usual stuff coming out of American universities

  • dude

    Dave loves TimeCube
    http://www.timecube.com/

  • Anonymous

    Right, those in power want to give up the power to print money.

    And you have the gall to talk to anyone else about reality?

  • Anonymous

    If you wanted to put words together in a manner that would show your total gleeful ignorance, these are they.

  • mikef

    Max Keiser is basically the schoolyard bully type. Hyperbolic and just plain irritating. I gave up on him years ago. It’s obvious he’s not much of a thinker.

    Well done Tom, great response. It really shows the calibre of someone as to whether they actually respond to statements or just engage in name-calling.

  • Matthew

    Man, you really sound like me on this one! Go for the coward Woods, and show all the true character of his which actually exists behind those floating assertions. I’m presently facing an analogous situation with someone acting along similar lines to those of your lovely Max. Irritating indeed! Ra Ra Ra

  • john

    Go tom go tom! yeah Max just pretty much admitted in his posts how much(little) he actually understood regarding austrian economics and the topics at hand. He doesnt even have the faintest idea what is called the tragedy of the commons, nor does he understand the economic calculation problem or the problem of appraisement & values. Maybe he should invest some of his time and energy actually learning some economics before holding any opinion regarding the topic :)

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Dave-Carroll/100003342890124 Dave Carroll

    Alex Jones engages in so much intellectual dishonesty himself I’d say he’s beyond waking up. And I’m not one that dismisses ‘conspiracy theories’ on face value.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Dave-Carroll/100003342890124 Dave Carroll

    He’s a leftist and also has been. He’s also one of those figures in the ‘truth movement’ like Gerald Celente that give these populist type rantings but have no clear philosophy. They’ll support the libertarian position on one issue and then the leftist ‘progressive’ position for another, like government regulating banks.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Robert-Nabakowski/1452262840 Robert Nabakowski

    Wow, you usually don’t find idiots of this magnitude on Woods’ site. Max?

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Warren-Canavan/100003158902665 Warren Canavan

    Max is basically a TV show host, hes no expert. This is all about ratings I reckon

  • Mike

    ” That’s reality. you austrians should visit it once and a while”

    That’s funny. Tried a mirror lately?

  • http://www.facebook.com/new.austrianeconomics New Austrianeconomics

    “In Mises, time preference is no more than a pious wish. It is the gold hoards that lend teeth to those wishes. Nothing else can. Mises was not alive to the arbitrage of the marginal bondholder between bonds and gold, the most potent form o
    f arbitrage between present and future goods. Likewise, Mises failed to explain how changes in the rate of interest guide production, to wit, through arbitrage of the marginal producer between bonds and capital goods.”

    http://www.professorfekete.com/articles/AEFWhenMisesWentWrong.pdf
    www.facebook.com/newasoe

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_7AA4NBFHV6ZXLG7CNY4BXWBEGU Ellen

    Tom Woods does not run scared!!! I’d thought that Max Keiser had more smarts than making such unsubstantiated claims. Perhaps he has nothing better to do….

  • concerned-human

    At least the Keiser Report actually brings up important issues and challenges that we are not even thinking about in the general public. There is no other media news show that comes close. The BBC here in the UK treat us like fools and patronise us, its much the same in the US and Western Europe. Ironically, RT.COM is more of the same, but from the Russian perspective. I still appreciate the Keiser Report even though its on RT.COM, however, wading through propaganda! I suppose we all have to have a sense of humility and fairness otherwise we shall all be damned, and our liberty will be taken swiftly from us, eh? Live and let live, try not to assume to always be right and always remain open to new ideas, right? Are we not humans before we are political intellects, before we decide to hold superior positions of arrogance over one another in a battle for power? That is when the weak and innocent are swept aside and forgotten. This message is usually manipulated for someone’s benefit at someone elses expense – bring on emotional manipulation in the media.

  • concerned-human

    So, does this forum generally disbelieve whatever Max Keiser reports on? Is he always wrong or is this exclusively a discussion about Mr Woods and Mises? I am getting confused in my apparently neutral position as i read through…

  • concerned-human

    I cant understand why people become so divided in their opinions. What about the middle ground? I can enjoy someone’s show, commentary, writing etc. without agreeing with everything, and I can also enjoy them even if they dislike another author I do like. We are all different in opinion taste and character – that is why we aspire to be “libertarians” rather than barcodes serving the state, right??

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Mike-Smith/100003722425156 Mike Smith

    This is strange behavior from Max Keiser. Of all the schools of economics, The Austrian School as expounded by Mises, seems most consistent with Keiser.

    I look at around five websites regularly: Lew Rockwell, Mises.org, MaxKeiser.com, Infowars.com, and zerohedge.com.

    Max seems like he has actually gone a little crazy on this one.

    Keep up the great work Tom. Just ignore Max. He might be too competitive in the same way as a spoiled schoolgirl on this issue.